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Post by Damocles on Nov 21, 2005 12:33:16 GMT -6
Yes, it needs to have the original stuff, but, if all it had was original stuff, then it would just be an update. V.1.9.9.
I think there needs to be new modes of play, along with the original survival.
I sent Tero this just now:
Dear Mr. Alatalo,
the main thing that fans want in Crimsonland 2(that I know of) are:
Multiplayer. An online play mode, where you can connetct with several other players, and complete quests, survival, and maybe even a massive assault.
Better graphics. In order to be able to compete with modern games, Crimsonaland needs better graphics. more detailed models, and special effects.
Terrain. Let the player interact more with the surroundings. Rocks you can shoot, ramps you can run up, and down, and adjust speed accordingly. Maybe a quest in a cave, where you get a flashlight that illluminates where you point, like the laserpointer.
New weapons and perks. Expand weapons class perks to plasma, lead, and rocket based weapons, not just ion. Maybe even a close combat weapon class, with swords, and brass knuckles.
New quests. Anonther tier of quests that include possibly an abandoned city, with bottlenecks where you have to blast your way out. Maybe a simple story that explains why you're there in the first place. Not too elaborate, but something. NPC's that you can pick up, and help you along the way. Levels that you have to explore, and oblectives to complete other than just killing so many mosters. Possibly advanced AI, that can follow you through tight hallways and corridors.
While some of these ideas might stray from the original, fun formula of Crimsonland, they would definatly be different.
And then, keep the original survival mode, for fun.
Thank you, Damocles
This is what I've been told needed to be there, and what I thought needed to be there. I don't want another update. I want a sequal that is better than the original.
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Post by nickbrick on Nov 21, 2005 14:35:48 GMT -6
wtf? youre not asking for crimsonland 2. youre asking for another-one-like-so-many-shooter-games-except-with-topdown-view
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Post by Damocles on Nov 21, 2005 15:09:41 GMT -6
i don't think Crimsonland 2 would be so great if it were exactly the same. it would be nice and flashy, but just Crimsonland. just an update.
If it has the same quests, typoshooter, perks, and just new weapons, no bullet cap, and no bugs, it would just be an update.
I want a game that is new, looks nice, has new weapons, new perks, has a mindless shooter mode, but also adds new stuff to an awesome game. I suggested new quests, new weapons, new graphics, new perks, and a better looking, bigger survival mode.
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Post by nickbrick on Nov 21, 2005 15:56:42 GMT -6
you(we) are asking for *too* flashy stuff imo, but i guess tero is not going to spoil the original style anyway. my humble apologies if i sounded too sharp.
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Post by Damocles on Nov 21, 2005 16:06:30 GMT -6
And maybe I spoke out of turn when I sid "we". My apologies as well.
I don't understand what you mean by "*too* flashy stuff". Please elaborate.
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Post by nickbrick on Nov 22, 2005 6:39:04 GMT -6
sorry, i didnt mean that. i didnt know what flashy means. i should have said "too much", "too funky" or "too different", if you know what i mean.
in general my point is that the game must have all the new feutures you\we said, but under no circumstances should the original quest and survival be overlooked. its the core of the gameplay.
if you wanted only bugfixes, weapons and perks, you would ask for an update, cl 1.9.9 anything else too complex and without the mindless shooting monster swarming style is not crimsonland. but of course one doesnt cancel another. i hope i am given both
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Post by guest on Nov 23, 2005 11:21:05 GMT -6
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Post by hellfire on Nov 24, 2005 10:53:42 GMT -6
i think there should also be more enemies and differant enemies should have differant effects. like zombies have a short poison, spiders slow you down. so on and so forth. also i want more imaginative weps like. meteor attrackter fires one shot randomly in the battlefield very big explotion. laser painter hit somthing with this and after 5 secs a giant laser comes from the sky and kills it and most things nearby, insanity gas, enemies go mad a kill each other(and you). just ideas but i want less traditional ways of killing things.
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Post by nickbrick on Nov 24, 2005 12:50:11 GMT -6
more statistics would be fun, like total kills, shots fired, bullets fired(for shotguns) bullets that hit, total damage dealt total distance you have covered. kinda like san andreas, i know
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Post by Damocles on Nov 26, 2005 22:20:27 GMT -6
I agree. I've often wondered how many times I was bitten, and how much health I regained before I died.
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Post by Damocles on Nov 27, 2005 20:02:59 GMT -6
Tero emailed me back with this: Hey,
First of all, sorry for the delay. It's been keeping pretty busy lately.
There will definitely be online multiplayer game. However, there might be some restrictions to the monster count when playing online, don't know yet. This is basically because the current implementation handles the AI on the server and broadcasts the updates to the clients. Sending the info for hundreds of creatures takes bandwidth. Of course, this can be (and already is) optimized in various ways, but to retain flexibility I'd like to have as less functionality as possible on the client side.
About graphics. Just as a poll, would you prefer 3d creatures to 2d? I don't want the game to require high-end system so with 3d you'd have to settle for less monsters. Bone matrix transformations would take a lot of CPU cycles, on top of that you'd need to do AI calculations and collision detection etc. If the monster count is in hundreds, things might definitely get too heavy for mainstream systems. As much as I'd want to do it, I'm not sure if the time is right for 3d Crimsonland yet.
I think having height variations would require 3d, otherwise it would just look weird. Currently the cl2 terrain consists of indestructible stuff (static) and other entities (dynamic) -- which can be used to make destroyable rocks etc. The vector field based AI handles this quite nicely and you can even see some flocking behaviour on wide spaces. Based on this AI method, it's also very easy to make creatures that fear (avoidance) certain things (bullets, fire, dead bodies etc) and are attracted to some others.
That cave thing sounds cool but I think I may restrict the game to open landscapes with some simple obstacles. I'd want to focus on larger hordes and their behavior, just like in cl1, not just few (tougher) creatures at a time. The reason why I wouldn't want to have both is that in my opinion they require different AIs to work well. Also having "mazes" would require more complex and time consuming calculations. Again, I know this could be optimized a lot but I'd just want to get the game done, not to spend my life optimizing it I'm just a one guy anyway..
New weapons and perks, definitely. Although I do have to think the perks through more carefully, and needless to say, they all don't fit into multiplayer game. Having multiplayer games also remove the features like time slowing down etc. It might be cool to have your guy develop through the quests too, but I'm not sure about that yet. About brass knuckles etc, how would close combat work exactly?
Story will probably be something I don't want to mess with very much in cl2. There'll probably be some simple background story though.
There's a lot of things I'd want to have in the game, but in the same time I don't want to lose the simplicity of the original game. It will be hard to choose what to include and what to leave out. Anyway the multiplayer game will be in with 99% chance.
Heh, maybe I should start writing developer blog about all this. I'm not sure if it'd just take too much time though.
-Tero
I'll start a poll here, and on the other forum about 2 or 3d stuff.
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Post by nickbrick on Nov 28, 2005 7:01:41 GMT -6
Close combat should include a weapon class to use with Mr. Melee. Nothing more I guess.
Link or forward Tero all the perk and weapon ideas we have had.
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Post by Damocles on Nov 28, 2005 14:24:05 GMT -6
I sent Tero this which has some of my ideas for a new melee weapon class. Dear Mr. Alatalo
I asked the forums people what they would prefer, and the vote was 4 to 2 in favor of 2D. If it just had more detail, I think everyone would be happy. I think this would rule out terrain, but we can't have everything.
Here is a link to a page of ideas for new weapons and perks for CL2 from people on the reflexive Forums: www.reflexive.net/reflexive_forum/viewtopic.php?t=1138.
I think Brass Knuckles could just be an improved Mr. Melee, but you could have a whole new weapons class in swords. The attack would be a swing in a half circle, or quarter circle in the direction you're facing. The length of the arc, damage done, and how fast you swing would depend on what type of sword you have, and if you have perks for them. For example, if you have a broad sword you'll swing slower, but have more range, and do more damage. As opposed to a short sword that would swing faster, but not as hard. Some perks that could go alomg with these could be sharper swords, or faster swings.
Another thing you could include is two handed shooting, and sword fighting. You can pick up 2 pistols, or 2 SMG's and shoot both, at the cost of some agility and speed. You could have a Holster perk, like Alternate Weapons, that will allow you to switch between a large gun, and two smaller ones. With swords, you could have two small swords that do twice the damage, but swing slower. This would be restricted to one handed swords, obviously.
Is it possible that some people at the forums can test play this when it releases? It's just a fantasy of mine.
Thank you, Damocles
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Post by nickbrick on Nov 28, 2005 14:43:29 GMT -6
Do you think swords alone would be any more useful than blow torch is?
I think there should be a button which swings the sword automatically while youre busy firing the guns. And maybe an auto-swordattack or sword counterattack perk.
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Post by Damocles on Nov 28, 2005 15:13:23 GMT -6
Yes, I do. The way I imagined it, it would form a 180 degree arc in around of you, and kill or damge everything in the arc.
In order for what you said to make sense, you would need 3 arms, if I understood correctly. Unless you have what I mentioned, 2 handed combat, and you had a small gun, and a small sword.
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Post by nickbrick on Nov 29, 2005 6:58:12 GMT -6
"Firing the guns" as in "firing the gun you could be holding". And I don't like the dual-wielding idea whatsoever. And you are making the whole sword concept sound too complicated.
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Post by Damocles on Nov 29, 2005 12:22:19 GMT -6
Ummm. The sword "concept" is VERY simple, to me. Whenever you "fire", you swing the sword in an arc(a part of a circle) and any monsters in that arc are killed. You would be able to run through hordes, and maybe not take so much damage.
I think shooting two weapons at once would be cool. I don't see why you can't shoot two pistols at once, and two SMG's would be very devastating.
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Post by nickbrick on Nov 29, 2005 14:41:13 GMT -6
Would the sword action be secondary? I mean, would you shoot the monsters as usual (with or without dual weapons) and press a button to swing the sword (if you have picked one up, right?) or would it be a primary and fully functionable weapon like every other? By secondary I refer to many modern first person shooters that have a melee attack button. Simple. Let's keep Crimsonland a shooter too.
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Post by hellfire on Nov 29, 2005 14:44:38 GMT -6
the sword idea is a nice idea. however if it were to work it would have to do alot of damge and be fairly fast to. also on another idea there should be secondry items like grenades and molotove cocktailes or have a thrown wepon group.
then again the secondry sword attack is not a bad idea either
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Post by nickbrick on Nov 29, 2005 14:53:47 GMT -6
Thrown weapons sound nice to me. Adding to my previous point, I believe that instant ways (a hotkey) of using swords or thrown weapons would spice up the gameplay and make it more intense.
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